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Born at the Crest of the Empire

Tuesday, February 12, 2008

Gonna piss somebody off with this one......

In explaining its losses, the Clinton campaign has repeatedly pointed to black voters, (CNN) Hillary Clinton: "in the case of Louisiana, you know, a very strong and very proud African-American electorate, which I totally respect and understand."

It's funny, though, I've never once seen them explain away a loss due to Obama's other big winning demographic, "better educated voters."

I guess it's harder to obliquely discount college degrees with the implication that they're unable to think for themselves.

(Per the Clinton campaign, we should mentally discount all black voters. (Maybe if we considered them as 3/5 of a voter.....))

(Sorry. I'm just getting sick of the repeated use of race, and you just know it's coming out again tonight.)

posted by mikevotes at 8:30 AM

16 Comments:

  • It's OK as long as you keep pointing out how strong and proud they are.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:57 AM  

  • they are dealing the race card and going to assume they wont need the black voters to win in Nov..."any dem will win big..."

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 9:20 AM  

  • The implication here is that white folks don't support Obama. So one could argue that Hillary's success are due to a very strong and proud White movement. And these white folks just won't vote for a colored, er, black man.

    It's a fact that African-Americans come out overwhelmingly for Obama. I'm sure some (large?) percentage of this is due to racial identity, which is too bad if that's their only motivation. But, are they the reason for Obama's victories, or, as I expect, the reason for Obama's overwhelming victories.


    The meme that Obama is only winning because of black pride voters is bogus on it's face, given his wins in Iowa, Idaho, Maine, etc. Never mind the fact that blacks still make up less than 14% of the population.

    It's a canard meant to trivialize Obama's success, and, frankly to patronize blacks. I can only assume Hillary feels she has lost the demographic and has nothing to lose by such statements.

    By Blogger -epm, at 9:31 AM  

  • And again, I'm not at all claiming the Clinton's are racist, they clearly aren't.

    They're just using the lever of race for their own ends.

    Kos did a really good post(I rarely go there, but I caught this one) mocking the Clinton campaign for choosing which states "matter" and listing ridiculous extensions of their arguments.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 10:52 AM  

  • While I don't think the Clintons are racist, I will say they're not above playing on other peoples prejudices to drive the herd to their camp. Is this any different than any other politician? I dunno. But it certainly doesn't make you a champion against racism.

    The Clintons, it seems to me, wish to be seen as more virtuous than their actions would, on their own, allow. As being above reproach. To some degree it's the "limousine liberal" charge. It's a question of authenticity. What line will you not cross to achieve your goals?

    For me, Hillary as much to offer. Much to like as a candidate and as a president. But it's these odd, often petty, snipes, that I find off putting.

    Maybe I'm off base.

    By Blogger -epm, at 11:15 AM  

  • Well, every politician wants to be seen as better than their actions, especially if you're running against someone the media is covering as the messiah.

    But I agree. As you may have noticed in reading the blog, I find the racist levers just a tiny bit offputting as well.

    (And it's too bad, because before this race resonance thing started around South Carolina, I was truly a back and forth undecided.

    But not now.)

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 11:28 AM  

  • Didn't piss off me. Excellent points, Mike.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 11:31 AM  

  • "Well, every politician wants to be seen as better than their actions,"

    Well sure. But I'm saying it's something more. The feeling I'm getting is the Clintons feel a certain entitlement to be above reproach. "How dare you suggest..."

    While everyone wants and hopes to be seen as being better than their actions, the Clintons feel entitled to be considered so.

    I don't know how to explain it, but it's like the Clintons are like normal people only... more. Like they want to got to 11 on every metric.

    This is just he vibe I'm getting personally. Just sharing my feelings with the group, as they say.

    By Blogger -epm, at 11:45 AM  

  • Yeah, God forbid Hillary should point out something that happens to be true. Is that racist... or is it racist for 80% of black voters to vote for Obama? Would they be voting for a candidate who had the same positions, said the same things, but whose father happened to have come from Norway not Kenya? Nope.

    You make a valid point, Mike, about other demographics that go for Obama... but then again, does any other demographic go so overwhelmingly for him, and for such a blatantly unsavory reason?

    I would guess the Clintons are a little frustrated by that, and by being called racists at every turn... particularly when this is a demographic THEY used to own.

    And something to think about for the general election... if this stuff is pissing off a California left-winger like me, how do you think it's playing among undecideds in Ohio and Florida?

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 1:46 PM  

  • Well, a HRC surrogate keeps up the good fight:

    ""Top Hillary supporter: Racist Pennsylvanians won't vote for black Obama""

    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08043/856727-153.stm

    pathetic...yeah, a white candidate actually crying racism and expecting to be believed...sob, sob.."all the blacks are voting for the black guy"...whatever...HRC needs to accept she is losing the game by THE RULES for once in her life! Now we see the white candidate asking for the rules to change or not make that much of a difference. If it was Obama losing 10 straight since super tuesday and only winning his home state and California (in states that actually mattered) EVERYONE would be telling him to drop out!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:17 PM  

  • TG, I knew this would piss somebody off.

    As a parallel question, Is Clinton dismissing her California win because of so many Hispanics? Think she'll discount Texas if she gets the break of Hispanics?

    No, no she won't. That's what makes this feel so wrong to me.

    Look, I admit this post is over the top, and that's why I included the apology up front, but all of this is a ploy.

    Again, I don't think they're racists, they're just cynically using a racist lever. There's a real (and important) difference between the two.

    ....

    Anon, That's a much more direct playing of the race card, and it is despicable.

    My counterargument is always that the people who won't vote for a Black man were never likely to vote Dem anyhow, and the impact of the "anti-Hillary" vote is probably more significant, although I don't think either will be enough to keep the Dem winner from the White House.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 3:00 PM  

  • It's not QUITE a parallel question, because Hillary's not Hispanic, so Hispanics aren't voting for her on a racial identity basis (not a direct one, anyway...)

    And if racists won't vote for a black man anyhow, what good does it do Hillary to supposedly pull the racist levers? I certainly don't think she's looking to the general election at this point.

    To me, it's this simple. She's trying to explain away her defeats, because she knows Obama's momentum can kill her. And she gives an explanation which, like it or not, actually happens to be the case.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 3:40 PM  

  • Your second to last sentence is right on. She's using this to explain the defeats.

    It's just very, very crass, and it's only partially true. Let's go back to my starting point. She's not actively citing college degrees, or the higher income people who also break harder for Obama.

    She's only citing black people. Over and over. South Carolina, Georgia, Miss, Louisiana.....

    (And yes it is a little different with the hispanic thing, but that's just an example of the way this is being selectively employed.

    As another example, have you ever heard her claim that her wins don't matter as much because she got a majority of the female vote?)

    We can go back and forth, but we're not going to settle this. I simply think it's crass to repeatedly minimize the black vote, and only the black vote because of the resonance that has. And she knows it has.

    It's just that she's treading on a racial sorespot for the minimal benefit of shifting the spin a little.

    It just feels really wrong to me.

    I recognize you feel differently.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 4:54 PM  

  • Would it be sexist to point out Hillary's support among women? She obviously has a lot of support among feminists who want to see a woman president, but has Obama played that card?

    By Blogger Lew Scannon, at 6:19 PM  

  • I think Clinton is under more scrutiny for her tactics than Obama is. He is riding this wave of idolatry from which he can kind of stay above the fray. From my perspective, I see Clinton supporters as more willing to switch to Obama whereas his supporters seem more intent on criticizing her. Obama himself is running a great campaign.

    As far as the sexist or racist votes - what do expect when the choices of candidates are a woman and a black male? They are both very good candidates, so what would be an acceptable way to decide which one to vote for? Do you see what I am saying? The race or sexist vote would be troubling to me if one of the candidates were clearly not qualified - but that is not the case.

    By Blogger Ptelea, at 8:50 AM  

  • Lew, Obama doesn't have to explain his losses right now, you know?

    ....

    Ptelea, agreed. He is being covered as the messiah right now.

    And I think the Clinton voters to Obama, not all Obama voters to Clinton is my impression as well.

    ===================

    And, to the Clinton campaign's credit, thus far, I haven't seen a single mention of "black voters" out of them after last night.


    It would make me so happy is that stayed the case.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 9:03 AM  

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