Debatus Infinitum
I made it through about 45 minutes. Now I'm watching baseball.
I'll bet I'm not alone.
Question: McCain's supposed big line of the night is that "he's not George Bush," but doesn't that then lead to everyone generating a comparison, looking for ways that he is and isn't like Bush? Hasn't he sort of guaranteed that his "likeness to Bush" becomes a running story out of this debate? That's not a winner.
Feedback: The early focus group BS seems to say Obama won. Three on the CNN panel of "undecideds" committed to Obama, none to McCain. Four on the FoxNews panel of "undecideds" committed to Obama, none to McCain.
Holy crap! CNN Snap Poll: Obama 58/31.
(Kos breaks down by party ID.)
CBS snap poll: Obama 58-22
More CNN: "Stronger leader" Obama 56/39
(Lesson: Obama is communicating with the American people in a way that the pundits don't recognize.)
And, stray question: What value does it serve to put surrogates on my TV to tell me their candidate won?
I'll bet I'm not alone.
Question: McCain's supposed big line of the night is that "he's not George Bush," but doesn't that then lead to everyone generating a comparison, looking for ways that he is and isn't like Bush? Hasn't he sort of guaranteed that his "likeness to Bush" becomes a running story out of this debate? That's not a winner.
Feedback: The early focus group BS seems to say Obama won. Three on the CNN panel of "undecideds" committed to Obama, none to McCain. Four on the FoxNews panel of "undecideds" committed to Obama, none to McCain.
Holy crap! CNN Snap Poll: Obama 58/31.
(Kos breaks down by party ID.)
CBS snap poll: Obama 58-22
More CNN: "Stronger leader" Obama 56/39
(Lesson: Obama is communicating with the American people in a way that the pundits don't recognize.)
And, stray question: What value does it serve to put surrogates on my TV to tell me their candidate won?
posted by mikevotes at
8:50 PM
6 Comments:
Overall... boring.
Obama continues to play it safe, sticking close to his talking points.
Obama concisely, clearly and effectively deflated the whole Ayers controversy, and to whatever extent it matters, his "associations" with ACORN.
McCain should have skipped the personal attacks -- Ayers, ACORN. It diminishes him as a candidate and a person.
Only the pundits think Obama is "Cool, maybe too cool?" Actual human being see him as in control and unflappable in a crisis or under attack. What is a "concern" for the pundit is reassurance to voters.
Americans generally think McCain is "old and angry." Pundits -- especially institutional pundits of the beltway variety -- still see McCain as having leadership qualities and as a "fundamentally decent man."
PBS has the best post game show.
David Brooks cannot bring himself to admit he actually likes Obama more than McCain. Still pining for McCain c. 2000, hoping whatever spirit has taken over this "fundamentally decent man" will just go away.
Joe the Plumber is probably the richest plumber in America, since his taxes "will go up under Sen. Obama's tax plan."
McCain was often scattershot in his responses, sometimes jumbling disparate topic/points, sometimes using insider shorthand, and sometimes referencing obscure legislation or procedures. In other words, most viewers were left scratching their heads and saying "What the hell is he talking about"
Obama has the ability to deny an accusation as "That's simply not true" without looking/sounding either defensive, angry or as if he's trying to hide something.
Obama is still as cool as San Francisco jazz circa 1960.
McCain is still a sarcastic prick circa 1948.
By
-epm, at 8:26 AM
I think the temperament issue comes out of this debate.
The GOP wants to blame the economy for McCain's fall, but, really, it's the vast tonal differences in response that have separated the candidates.
...
Didn't David Brooks pen a moderately accepting "Obama will win piece?"
....
And, Joe the plumber is taking home more than 250K, so yeah, hardly the butt crack showing stereotype.
By
mikevotes, at 8:30 AM
Brooks thinks Obama will win. He talks about what a great campaign he's run. He sounds like he wants to like Obama, but he just can't let go of his clinging to conservatism (whatever that is these days.) He's conflicted. Like a Catholic who secretly admires Episcopalianism, but just can't make the emotional jump. But in the end, I was just being snarky.
The real Joe the plumber isn't taking home 250K. The real Joe the plumber doesn't have a clue about McCain's tax plan, nor Obama's. The real Joe the plumber may not be very "real" at all... Beware the oppo researchers, the Internets and The Google.
By
-epm, at 9:11 AM
Really? I thought McCain cited that $250K figure. "Congratulations, Joe, you're rich."
By
mikevotes, at 11:06 AM
So, you're goin' with the whole "McCain knows what he's talking about" angle?
Joe W. confirmed on morning talk shows that he would not be affected by Obama's tax plan, but that he was afraid the real tax line would be a lot lower than Obama claims. As we learn more about the real Joe the Plumber, we're seeing a real entrenched, right wing guy who just eats up all the Republican talking points. everything from the "Christian" liberation of Iraq to Obama tap dances around questions like "Sammy Davis, Jr."
Frankly, I think Joe Wurzelbacher is full of crap. I don't believe he's in a position to buy the plumbing company he claims to want to buy -- either financially or competently as a businessman. And I don't think he's interested in the facts on tax policy or anything that rocks his pre-conceived world view.
By
-epm, at 11:26 AM
Really, I'm just not keeping up with all this crap. McCain and the base are having fun with it, but it's not gonna move votes.
Here's the question, does the McCain camp end up overplaying this, too, dragging this guy up on stage somewhere?
It's Palin again.
By
mikevotes, at 1:45 PM
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