Still more on the Karbala attack and other rumors
The latest rumor on the Karbala attack that specifically targeted 5 US soldiers is that it might have been carried out by Sunnis.
This was a military style raid, and the Sunnis do have the majority of Saddam's former elite forces, and it would make sense that the Sunnis would try to draw the US into conflict with Mahdi, but I just don't know.
There's just something unusual about this attack I can't pin down. (Previous posts.)
(Later: The latest is that the attackers passed through three Iraqi checkpoints and that their unifoms, trucks, and English were good enough to fool the Iraqi forces at each one. Also, everyone from the police chief down are being interrogated.)
(UPDATE: McClatchy reports that they had US ID's, and "The force stopped at the police directorate in Karbala and took weapons but gave no reason." Mahdi denied the operation.
The US does now have a number of captives, so, although we may never know what happened, the US military will. ("They all spoke English!?!?!?")
While I'm repeating rumors,
And, (AP) Three more Iranians were arrested in Mosul
This was a military style raid, and the Sunnis do have the majority of Saddam's former elite forces, and it would make sense that the Sunnis would try to draw the US into conflict with Mahdi, but I just don't know.
There's just something unusual about this attack I can't pin down. (Previous posts.)
(Later: The latest is that the attackers passed through three Iraqi checkpoints and that their unifoms, trucks, and English were good enough to fool the Iraqi forces at each one. Also, everyone from the police chief down are being interrogated.)
(UPDATE: McClatchy reports that they had US ID's, and "The force stopped at the police directorate in Karbala and took weapons but gave no reason." Mahdi denied the operation.
The police commandos discovered the vehicles (7 GMC Suburbans) and found three dead men inside, a wounded man and five others, Ahmed said. He said they all spoke English. Iraqi police took the men back to the police station and American forces retrieved them by dawn.
The US does now have a number of captives, so, although we may never know what happened, the US military will. ("They all spoke English!?!?!?")
While I'm repeating rumors,
Anonymous sources inside the Defense Ministry had told the Fatihoon website that the Badr Brigade is on high alert under orders from Abdul Aziz Al-Hakim in anticipation of a U.S. assault after the detention of two Iranian officials in Erbil and the closure of the Shalamcha border crossing. The sources alleged that dozens of Iranian Intelligence officers were taking positions around Baghdad, in Salman Pak, Hilla and Kut, in preparation for an attack to drive out the remaining Sunni population from districts on the Rusafa side, east of Baghdad, in order to assume full control by Shi’ite political parties loyal to Iran.
And, (AP) Three more Iranians were arrested in Mosul
posted by mikevotes at
8:34 AM
6 Comments:
I knew it wouldn't be long before we heard the Iranians were behind this. The sourcing of information has become so polluted -- from us, from them -- I don't know what to believe any more. If it's not rumors, it's propaganda and disinformaiton...
By
-epm, at 9:35 AM
More questions than answers. Why these 5 Americans? If Sunni, how did they get the information? Who were the English speakers? Are the Sunnis trying to disrupt the Shia event? Does this mean that something big is being planned for said event?
I think mostly the level of sophistication and daring in this raid is the main thing to give one pause, no matter who was responsible.
By
Praguetwin, at 9:44 AM
EPM, I think that anything bad in Iraq that happens for the next three months is going to be blamed on the Iranians, whether it is committed by the Shia or the British.
And, the information problem has been around for a good while. The US's first information is frequently wrong, sometimes/often deliberately so. The example that jumps to mind is when the tried to claim a carbombing was a natural gas explosion in the early days of Forward Together.
....
Praguetwin, that's exactly where I am. There are so many questions with possibly very significant answers.
Were these 5 specifically targeted or was it an opportunity? Early reports were that there was an attempt to kidnap, but every US soldier there was killed or wounded, so why didn't they take the wounded?
Your Sunni question is a great question. I can certainly believe the rumor that the Sunnis are trying to get the Shia embroiled with the US, but you're right, how did they get all that scouting inside Karbala?
Also, this does sound very sophisticated which tells me that whoever committed this was willing to risk their top troops to execute it.
But still, why...? Ex Sunni Republican guard spec forces? Shia trained in Iran? Al Qaeda?
I would guess that this is not about specifically about Said as all it would do is increase security. Maybe someone trying to drive a wedge between Sistani and Sadr? But then, there have to easier ways to do that.
I just can't seem to get my head around it.
By
mikevotes, at 10:26 AM
If these guys were as polished as the stories indicate, then they weren't plain old insurgents or militia fighters. Their polish might be exaggerated though.
It's hard to imagine the Sunnis getting well entrenched in Karbala for this. I find this map to be quite handy.
Not to be a warmongerer on this, but the Iranians are probably capable of this. If a Shiite militia is, and they might be, then that is worrisome. Maybe Hezbollah could do something like this, and we know they've worked with Sadr's group.
My impression at this point:
Well equipped group with credentials. Basic knowledge of English. Awareness of targets' location.
By
Bravo 2-1, at 12:33 PM
Yeah, I think the sophistication is moderate, not Delta Force, but it does seem to indicate a group who has trained together somewhere.
Any of the Shia groups you mention would be capable of this, but the key is where did they get the training? I doubt it's Iranians directly because the risk of leaving evidence behind, but it could easily be people trained in Iran. Would Hezbullah do this and risk involving the US? The evidence seems to be they were looking for hostages, so maybe it was worth the risk? They have a history of hostages for negotiation.
(And I wouldn't leave out Sciri/Badr trying to pin this on Mahdi.)
I was also quite curious about their wounded/killed. They took the care to remove them from the scene in Karbala, but then abandoned them/lost them around Hilla?
Sunnis as culprits would be problematic because they were operating in such a heavily Shia area. The uniforms and passes would get them in, but after the attack and the request for help, would it get them out?
This was a big "asset" somebody spent on this operation. They revealed their possession of US ID's and uniforms, and risked well trained personnel.
My gut says somebody wanted this to look like Mahdi, but I don't think it was.
I just don't know.
Mike
By
mikevotes, at 1:19 PM
Four of the fake soldiers were captured. Good work on behalf of U.S and Iraqi special forces. Hopefully these cold blooded murderers were quickly handed over to Israeli Intelligence. If so we no doubt have all the details as to who exactly was behind this underhanded, low down, despicable attack. My bet is that Iran will soon be paying a heavy price for their involvement.
May God continue to bless America and all it's brave soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who are slowly but surely bringing a better life to the Iraqi people.
By
Anonymous, at 7:43 PM
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