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Born at the Crest of the Empire

Friday, March 27, 2009

The next Tim McVeigh

This report was likely pulled because of the incendiary and loose links to political figures and Cristianity. Ignore that.

What is important is that the US "militias" are coming back.

Remember these crazies? The gun toting "black helicopter" nuts who were doing military/survivalist training to resist the eventual UN takeover of the United States that they believed the Clinton administration was orchestrating? Remember the Michigan militia and the many other outfits that sprang up across the country? Remember Tim McVeigh who traveled in and came out of those circles?

I would argue that this round could be far more dangerous. That 90's version had some connections and ties to the white supremacists, but with their natural beliefs that Democrats are "socialist one worlders" (look at the fervor being fanned on the right over that world currency garbage,) and a black president as hate object, the potential for serious white supremacist connections in this version is much higher.

Now tie that in with (even just a few) disaffected and potentially damaged Iraq war veterans carrying boatloads of anger, and you have a potential for disaster.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, this just feels all too familiar to those groups in the 90's.


  • Let me make it clear: I'm not averse to a little tinfoil hattery. I'm prone to it myself.

    But when you start mixing in guns and plots against the government, it's a whole different thing.

    PS. Those "black helicopters" aren't UN. They're customs and border enforcement.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 8:42 AM  

  • As far as I now McVeigh was only loosely connected to the militia movement.

    There is and has been a dead serious discussion going on for a long time about when it is time to start shooting people. I dont think passing the 'assault weapons' ban would be enough, but personaly, if it passed I wouldn't linger around a government building.

    If it does pass, throw in just one 'Ruby Ridge', 'Waco', or just one of the BATFE's more obnoxious stunts, and somebody is going to die.

    There are a non-trivial number of people out there who think McVeigh's only real error was in target selection.

    By Blogger OpenMindedRepublican, at 8:51 AM  

  • Yeah, definitely. McVeigh traveled around the militia movement, but he was never really part of it. He also crossed with the survivalists and some of the Christian whatever-they-ares who are after Christian law supplanting the Constitution.

    And, frankly, I'm not really worried about the militias in a broad sense, they're largely people playing army and survival in the woods, but there's a small segment that seems to come loose, and that's what I'm afraid of. The militias are a culture in which a small number can find some nurture for they further out crazy ideas.

    Especially after the reporting on white supremacists and ricin.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 10:46 AM  

  • Stepping waaaay back, I think we're still dealing with the social, cultural and political issues from the Civil War divide. Would be all be better off if Lincoln had negotiated a peaceful, equitable secession of the Confederate states?

    This thought has been on my mind for decades.

    By Blogger -epm, at 11:17 AM  

  • "some of the Christian whatever-they-ares who are after Christian law supplanting the Constitution"

    ITYM Christian Identity Church.
    McVeigh was a member of that movement/Church. Aside from advocating making up laws as you go along, they also believed that minorities were sub-human ("mud-people").

    "The militias are a culture in which a small number can find some nurture for they further out crazy ideas."

    They certainly aren't a military threat to overthrow the government as Beck imagines.
    If the Right elevates any militia into hero status, then the GOP is doomed for a decade or more.

    The Republicans have invested so much of their political capital in the "treason" narrative that any real, actionable treason on their part would create "negative credibility" (people not even taking you seriously when you are trying to be serious).

    By Blogger Todd Dugdale, at 1:10 PM  

  • EPM, I don't think so.


    Todd, thanks, I was just too lazy to look up Christian identity.

    And, I would loosely equate this to something like fundamental Islam. In Britain, there's alot of fundamentalist Islam, but most, even with their grievances, are peaceful. But those who want violence find fuel coming out of the ideology.

    PS. The "Obama is not American/a citizen" is part of the treason fantasy.

    By Blogger mikevotes, at 1:16 PM  

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