You, too, would be an illegal immigrant
As the Congress comes back from yet another break, with immigration on the agenda, I thought I'd ask a question.
If salaries in Canada were five times your current salary would you consider crossing the border and working illegally? Think about what that would mean for your family.
If salaries in Canada were five times your current salary would you consider crossing the border and working illegally? Think about what that would mean for your family.
posted by mikevotes at
9:49 AM
9 Comments:
Excellent point, and it's not just the salaries either...
Have you ever been in Tijuana, where there are people sleeping on the street, and plastic mud huts are housing 11 people...and looked north toward the bright, glowing lights from the skyscrapers on the San Diego skyline?
Christ I'm American, and I wanted to run for the border.
And nevertheless, if we had an influx of Irish coming here to work due to poor conditions there, you're telling me this country wouldn't welcome them with open arms? We'd make a fucking Irish day...we'd even put that day on March 17th, and drink beer, and have parades on that day. That's what we'd do!
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Jeremy, at 12:36 PM
Very thought provoking. As jeremy points out it's not just salaries, but a much better quality of life in a broader sense, as well.
Canada doesn't offer better salaries, but in some ways they offer a better quality of life... environmentally, life expectancy, cost of education, etc. Not to mention civil liberties and privacy issues.
Hmmm. Maybe it's time I look up those distant relatives in Nova Scotia and Quebec. :)
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-epm, at 12:49 PM
Yeah, Jeremy, I have written on and on about the soft bigotry that is driving the politics of immigration. The idea was that like gay marriage, the Repubs could appeal to people's unspoken bigoted assumptions to win broad support. And, you're right about the mud huts. I kept trying to pin a line on the end of the post, "what if your family was starving?" but I just couldn't get it to work.
And, EPM, I would already be in Canada if it just wasn't so cold. Our neighbors to the north have run a fine country, but I'm still not too sure about what the new "conservative" government has planned.
Mike
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mikevotes, at 1:14 PM
Excellent question. I'm still on the fence about this whole matter and can't decide definitively. On the one hand, I understand the desire people in Mexico have to seek better lives for themselves, but on the other hand they should do it the way we did. We pressured the robber barons for better wages and working conditions and we formed labor unions.
I guess I favor giving amnesty to some of the illegals that have been here a long time - maybe 3 years or more. It's not their fault the government winked and looked the other way. It bothers me that those who played by the rules are being treated differently though. My boss is returning to India in May after six years in this country. She hired an immigration attorney and spent thousands of dollars trying to get a permanent work visa (and ultimately citizenship) but since 9/11 the Immigration Dept has operated like FEMA and bungled her application. Anyway, long story short, her marriage has suffered because of the long distance relationship and she is returning home. Granting amnesty is unfair to her and people like her who played by the rules and got shafted.
So, you can see why I sit on the fence about this whole thing. Either we apply the rules to everyone or no one.
And don't forget the complicity of the employers who hired these people. They should be dealt with severely and quickly since they're responsible for the hardship and animosity this situation created.
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Kathy, at 1:44 PM
Honestly, I don't have a solid position on immigration either, but I don't think criminalizing the immigrants is the answer. And I think you do have to have an amnesty.
But, quite frankly, I think we're in an immigration crisis just the same way we were in a social security crisis last year. It's a real problem, but not on the scale of some of the others we face, long term educational declines, national debt.
And, really, I think outsourcing is the far bigger issue as those are better paying jobs Americans want.
But nobody wants to talk about that.
Also, I agree that the crackdowns since 9-11 have stripped this country of some real talent and I think that's a real mistake.
Mike
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mikevotes, at 2:05 PM
My three part plan. Not fully fleshed out, but its Restitution, Enforcement, International Reform.
1.) All undocumented immigrants who have been in this country for three years or more must register at a local post office, similar to the Selective Service program.
They have six months to do this.
This information is forwarded to the newly re-formed INS Department of Documentation and Restitution, who will direct these people as to how they are to provide restitution to the US and assign them temporary documentation that will allow them to enroll in a legalization program (program details may include English language classes, etc. as determined by Congress).
Like the IRS, the INS DDR will conduct audits verifying compliance.
After six months, any employer found to employing undocumented immigrants will be severely punished (e.g. forbidden for doing work for the federal gvt for 7 years as well as punitive fines).
2.) Effective border security. I have no idea how this is done, but anything short of building the Great Wall of Texas is on the table.
3.) Bitch-slap Vicente Fox into reforming his corrupt, dismal and oppressive country into a first world twenty-first century nation. Mexico must make strides to improve their economy, social safety net, and their own border security or face sanctions.
policing his side of the border
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-epm, at 3:14 PM
Not bad, better'n what I've got.
But it doesn't address the root problem in the inequity in wages. The best you can do is slow it down so long as the wage gap is so severe. Even if you go after employers, I would think that the small business economy, businesses under 50 employees, maids, yard guys etc, would still be impossible to monitor.
Mike
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mikevotes, at 6:08 PM
But this is a problem for all under-the-table labor, not just immigrant, legal or otherwise. With the fear of deportation and jail lifted, organized labor will be given a chance for revival and hopefully renewed credibility in the American zeitgeist
The goal is to shine a light on the labor issues by offering the undocumented workers a path to legitimacy through some form of restitutional regime (fine, taxes, language/culture classes). This also give current employers absolution for past wrongs regarding hiring practices.
To the extent that other undocumented immigrants are pushed further underground, at least you'll have a more manageable number. And since you've provided a humane path to legitimacy for long term residents (I'd say three years), a tougher crack down on shorter term illegals and border crossers seems less racist and draconian.
But we have to do all three in parallel, which is something politicians seem to have a real hard time doing: following more than one shiny object at a time.
Of the three points, the one I hear nothing (or nearly nothing) about is calling on the government of Mexico to step up to the plate is take responsibility for it own dysfunctional failures. Frankly, I think there's a bit of a wink and a nod between American political business interests and the Mexican situation. It would be nice if an American president actually cared more about the American people and less about whoring for his wealthy money pushers.
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-epm, at 7:31 PM
You obviously have thought about this far more than I have. I will accept your points and plan without any real contention.
But I do want to point out that what we're looking at is a mass migration of historical proportions being driven by economic factors, like the Irish to the US or the 49ers. The risks currently undertaken by the southern border immigrants are probably less than either of those two groups. And, as the gold isn't going to run out, perhaps we should ask why the Irish or other similar migrations ended.
Because I don't think any of these efforts will be ultimately successful until the root causes are adequately addressed.
And as for Fox's "wink and a nod," I buy that completely. Wasn't he the ex Cocacola executive?
Mike
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mikevotes, at 9:09 PM
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