I have a feeling it's coming
Just a little rumory post by Josh Marshall....
As I said a month ago, I think this is a story that might come out.
Later: If true (or allegible,) this would be a blockbuster. This would be the misapplication of torture by its primary proponent.
Later Still: A two source report that Cheney wanted to waterboard the head of Iraqi security looking for that non-existent Iraq/Al Qaeda connection.
And, Cheney no longer controls the declassification process. He's now picking a fight where the other guys get to chose what comes out.
I've been talking to a few people today who have some professional insight into the whole torture saga, just what happened, what this or that secret memo might say. And I'm getting the sense that waterboarding to force people to tell us the 'truth' about Saddam's alliance with al Qaida might turn out to be a pretty big part of this. Especially when we look closely at Cheney's role.
As I said a month ago, I think this is a story that might come out.
Later: If true (or allegible,) this would be a blockbuster. This would be the misapplication of torture by its primary proponent.
Later Still: A two source report that Cheney wanted to waterboard the head of Iraqi security looking for that non-existent Iraq/Al Qaeda connection.
And, Cheney no longer controls the declassification process. He's now picking a fight where the other guys get to chose what comes out.
posted by mikevotes at
10:22 PM
10 Comments:
"If true (or allegible,) this would be a blockbuster. This would be the misapplication of torture by its primary proponent."As I pointed out in another comment; it's sad that the sin is the improper application of torture. Not that torture, like rape, is a sin... (And there are those in the Right Wing who will argue that not all forces sex is rape, too....)
By
-epm, at 12:47 PM
Very true. First off, you know I'm against torture, but misapplication would be a far bigger deal in that it would go around all the pro-torture arguments.
There's no ticking bomb scenario if Cheney was personally pushing torture for a linkage that only he believed. At that point it's Cheney himself ordering torture for his own desires.
In other words, the ground of the argument is substantially different on Iraq-Al Qaeda than the false ticking bomb. There is no possible "it stopped attacks" on Iraq Al Qaeda.
Again, this is more about shifting the foundation of the debate to where torture would no longer be defensible. It's not about torture itself so much as removing any defense even among the pro torture crowd.
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mikevotes, at 1:37 PM
Yes. I know you're against torture. My observation is with the shift in the general public about what is acceptable and what is not.
Torture.... lying... pay-to-play... All that would have outraged the public 35-40 years ago has all become rather shrug-worthy today.
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-epm, at 2:10 PM
I've come to the belief that the one thing the Bush admin did right was to flood the world with outrages.
So, so many got lost in the week by week revelations, and it fractured the opposition by issue.
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mikevotes, at 2:34 PM
-epm is right. People have become numb. It's been a long slow process. Gory movies, violent video games and porn have a lot to do with it IMO.
By
Anonymous, at 3:24 PM
I think it has more to do with exhaustion and a sense of powerlessness.
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mikevotes, at 4:28 PM
"Gory movies, violent video games and porn have a lot to do with it IMO."Well, yes... to a degree, I suppose. But more significant than the content of popular media is the defect so many seem to have with confusing fiction with reality... the seeming inability to separate "24" from real-world espionage and interrogation. For that matter the inability to distinguish between "The Andy Griffith Show" and a white-washed, rose colored glasses view of the real world.
Remember when Dan Quayle criticized Murphy Brown? We elected and actor in 1980. Maybe that was the point where we veered off into fantasy land... when we found it easier to immerse ourselves in feel-good fiction than deal with hard realities. That's when all the "War on xxx" started, too. Childish things.
Ironically, ss we became a mature world power in the latter half of the 20th century, our citizenry (and pols) started to become more infantile...
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-epm, at 4:29 PM
OK...how about exhaustion, powerlessness and an inability to separate fiction from reality compounded by gory movies, violent video games and porn?
By
Anonymous, at 4:47 PM
Bing! I'll by that Anonymous.
By
-epm, at 6:16 PM
EPM, actually, I think "war on xxx" started with the war on poverty started by Johnson.
By
mikevotes, at 9:51 PM
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