Picture of the Day - 2
Children collect bullet shells following an attack in Sadr City slum of Baghdad, Iraq, Sunday, May 13, 2007. A U.S. military helicopter opened fire at a family sleeping on their rooftop, killing a mother and two children and injuring two other children, Iraqi police said. (AP Photo/Karim Kadim)
posted by mikevotes at
11:18 AM
9 Comments:
I know sleeping on your rooftop might make it look like no one is home if members of a death squad were to come into the house, but laying down on a rooftop probably looks a lot like a sniper team set up to a helicopter's infrared.
Either way, it's still tragic.
By
Anonymous, at 12:19 PM
So it's official, then. The "enemy" is everyone.
By
-epm, at 1:22 PM
"...probably looks a lot like ..."
It there you have it. Rules of Engagement: Truthiness Edition.
While the observation Jeff made may be true, it is little different than shooting at sounds in the dark.
By
-epm, at 1:26 PM
Jeff, I hadn't thought about hididng from death squads, I had guessed they were probably just up there for the heat.
My intention wasn't to blame the crew for the shooting, but to simply point to one example of too many of the kind of things that happen.
....
EPM, Sorry, but I almost always tend to give the doubt to the accident side of these types of killings unless there's some sign of premeditation.
Maybe it's because I could see myself making a wrong judgement while under stress.
Maybe that's too forgiving, but I could see myself making a similar mistake.
By
mikevotes, at 1:37 PM
Given the recent survey of soldier and marine attitudes toward non-combatants, I think it's fair to be less forgiving in these circumstances. It may be that the individual soldiers are doing the best that they can, give the criminal leadership under which they live their lives, but still... It we are now at a point where the rules of engagement are shoot first, ask questions later, then we indeed are acting against our own national best interest.
I'm not suggesting the soldiers (airmen, marines, whatever) were out joy riding (flying) and picking off civilians like rats at the dump. I am suggesting, however, the moral regulators of our servicemen -- for what ever reason you wish to ascribe it -- is being eroded. The value of human life, in the abstract, is being compromised. With more frequent and longer tours of duty the psychological damage being done to these men cannot be over estimated. And these men will be walking among us some day -- probably without getting the mental health services they really need.
Are we creating a sub culture of ticking time bombs? How does this acceptance of civilian killings -- by us or indigenous actors -- shape the American zeitgeist moving forward? Will we permanently become a more cruel, more dispassionate, more brutal nation?
By
-epm, at 2:06 PM
I agree with you in principal, and we can discuss where blame might lie....
But I just can't get over the idea that if I were on my second or third tour, working 10-12 hours a day, seven days a week, and had seen friends wounded and killed by insults the human body was not designed to withstand, that I might well be trigger happy.
I'm not trying to wage an argument or convince you, that's just how I feel.
More broadly, I'm more than willing to openly blame people sitting at desks for putting soldiers in bad situations, but I just can't lay it on the guys who pull the trigger.
I would certainly accept the argument that a growing number of soldiers are mentally crossing the line, that self reporting survey bore that out. If you want to assess blame, I would put it on the leaders, both in Washington and Iraq who have issued orders more or less to "stand and take casualties."
Last, I wouldn't say that we're trending towards a permanent cruelty. Right now as a country we're in a self imposed denial. The same thing went on in Vietnam with reports of atrocities coming out until MyLai.
The problem is that when the country snaps back, suddenly the soldiers who dropped into that mindset (not all soldiers) become alienated as society condemns the horrors of war.
Way off where I started, but just waht came bubbling out of my head.
By
mikevotes, at 2:25 PM
I'm not trying to condemn the soldiers from a position of moral authority. As you and I both point out, the conditions under which they exists (at the hands of pasty desk jockeys in Washington, and the local barbarisms alike) are tragic. I agree that I would be no less numb if I were in that sort of survival mode.
However, I can't let that mitigate my outrage at the larger human condition that we, as a nation, don't seem to find shocking. Empathy for the plight of the GI cannot bring us to the point of accepting "I was only following orders" as a defense. There is a line somewhere in the fog of war where one crosses from the unfortunate event to the re-adjustment of (im)moral acceptability.
Like you, just some thoughts that feel good to express. If only to exorcise the soul...
By
-epm, at 4:14 PM
Right.
The crime is the war. The crime is putting the soldiers in this overextended, over stressed position.
By
mikevotes, at 6:24 PM
Agreed. Let's have a beer.
Ah... it's good to have someone to "talk" to... Thanks Mike.
By
-epm, at 8:22 PM
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